My guest today is Eiynah, @nicemangos on Twitter. She’s a blogger/writer/and now podcaster who has been on the show before. Being an ex-Muslim is a distinctly difficult place to be because of the hate mail comes in from all sides! Today, Eiynah is here to talk about Tommy Robinson and anti-Muslim bigotry. Eiynah sees Islamophobia as an invalid term since in her view, it’s totally legitimate to have a fear of Islam, and yet anti-Muslim bigotry is a big problem at the same time. How do we balance those two? That and more in today’s show.
Here are some links mentioned in the show: http://www.gspellchecker.com/2014/10/ep34-eiynah-tommy-robinson/
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Loved the latest podcast, man … I’m kinda tired of the regressive left term, too — even though I have used it from time to time …
“I’m kinda tired of the regressive left term, too”
I am as well to some extent. While I think regressive is an accurate term to use when describing certain ideologues, I think it’s better used as a description of specific positions on specific issues. In other words someone may hold a regressive position on a specific issue, while not qualifying as a Regressive.
People don’t engage in body shaming because they think it’s a valid argument against someone’s position. The intent, like with all trolling is to get under people’s skin. I don’t know whether it’s something Maryam has complained about, but if she has she’s giving the trolls exactly what they want. If she hasn’t those who complain about it on her behalf are giving them what they want, and are not doing her any favors. It will only embolden then to do more of it because it’s getting exactly the attention they want. And what they want is to piss off people they disagree with.
What do you know Mike, another comment where you victim blame and don’t hold assholes accountable for their sexism. It gets a little old to be honest. It’s not up to Maryam to not react when people draw disgusting caricatures of her body and label it “satire.” We can actually just say those people are being assholes.
“What do you know Mike, another comment where you victim blame and don’t hold assholes accountable for their sexism.”
How the hell is it victim blaming to point out that you don’t feed the trolls? Bringing attention to their shit is not holding them accountable, it’s rewarding them. Do you honestly not realize you’re giving them exactly what they want?
This is not a troll. This is someone who Dawkins has called a great satirist. This is someone with mainstream support. If people said “hey man, that cartoon is incredibly sexist” he would probably change his mind. It’s not up to us to ignore sexism especially when it’s so widely endorsed.
“This is not a troll. This is someone who Dawkins has called a great satirist.”
I don’t know who, or what cartoon you’re talking about I was rather distracted while listening. I was talking about people who would resort to body shaming in general, their intent is to hurt the target, and the targets supporters feelings. What else could be the motivation, even in the specific case you’re referring to?
Here’s the issue, there are people who actually think it’s a legitimate response to Maryam’s arguments to insult the way she looks. This particular person drew a disgusting caricature that was widely shared. I think what pisses me off so much about your comments here is you have so much criticism for so many people all the time until it comes to something like this, and then conveniently you’re telling people they need to stop reacting to this sexism. It’s a little too convenient. I’m going to go ahead and continue calling out assholes when they’re assholes. I’m not afraid that they thrive on that or something.
“there are people who actually think it’s a legitimate response to Maryam’s arguments to insult the way she looks.”
By legitimate do you mean acceptable, or one that makes a good point? I think It’s obviously a ridiculous argument that is only mean to offend, so why even respond?
“I think what pisses me off so much about your comments here is you have so much criticism for so many people all the time until it comes to something like this,”
Something like this being situations that I perceive as trolling.
Definition:
make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
I hate trolls, and I hate to see them get what they are looking for because I believe it only makes them stronger, and the undo attention the trolls get makes people on one side or another of a disagreement look guilty by association. The more attention brought to this case for example the more people who have legitimate disagreements with Maryam will be labeled as sexists. You know people who agree with her are playing that card as we speak.
Good show, Thomas. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around the various voices in all the arguing about Islam, regressive left and so forth and I keep running into self-congratulating people in echo chambers. Dave Rubin and the like .
You are much more critical of your own thinking, I think.
I find it a bit worrying that these self proclaimed progressives feel so at home with fans who don’t challenge them and with sneering so much at the so called regressives (I do agree that they (regressive left) are problematic, though).
Eiynah came across very well. Seems to be nice and thoughtful, although I could not quite make out her stance on immigration. I’d like to hear some good suggestions for solutions here in Europe.
Looking forwards to more quality discussion. Have you had Maryam Namazie on? I’ll check your back-log.
Best regards,
Thank you. I haven’t had her on. I wanted to but I’m now highly skeptical she’d take me up on it, since I was really critical of her appearance on Sam Harris. I may try to reach out but I’m not optimistic.
Yes, you were critical of her, rightly so. She was not very good and she lost her composure a bit on Twitter afterwards. But she has a good message and I like her writing. So I hope she will eventually accept some of the criticism she is getting and carry on.
I think she might be a whole lot better with you than with Sam, they seem to be quite incompatible.
I’ll now go listen to your older discussions with Eiynah.
I felt like I was walking on marbles throughout the episode. Institutionalized Atheist Debate, and commentary bubbling forth therefrom, is an alien planet upon which I am ill-equipped to survive. So long and thanks for all the fish . . .