AS161: Real Atheology with Justin Schieber

Welcome back to the show for what I think is the third time, Justin Schieber! Justin has himself a brand new youtube channel called Real Atheology that I think you guys will love! We talk about his first video – The Evidential Problem of Suffering.

You can find the channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQa6mPLOE2yuMCrDjRio_nA and just on Twitter @justinsweh.

5 thoughts on “AS161: Real Atheology with Justin Schieber”

  1. Just wanted to say, as Matt Dillahunty has pointed out, the response to theists that counter the Problem of Evil with a Free Will argument is to ask them if there is Free Will in Heaven. This necessarily leads to one of three conclusions: 1. There is no free will in Heaven, 2. It is possible for both Free Will and no suffering to co-exist thus countering the Free Will argument, or 3. Evil exists in Heaven.

    1. I suspect the counter-apologetic for that would be either that satan isn’t allowed in heaven and thus evil would be impossible given he can’t tempt you, or that once in heaven you are so content, happy, and enlightened that choosing evil would not be in your nature.

      1. That counter fails, though, because it doesn’t matter if Satan is allowed into heaven or not; humans (or at least their ‘souls’) are. Given the Christian premise that heaven is eternal, if humans have free will then suffering is inevitable on an infinite timeframe; if suffering cannot exist in heaven then free will is impossible. The only way for the Christian apologist to avoid either prong of this dilemma, both of which are unacceptable to Christian theology, they are forced to conclude that free will and the total absence of suffering are compatible, which begs the question of why wasn’t the world created with those conditions in the first place and makes the conclusion that God must be immoral inevitable.

        1. “Given the Christian premise that heaven is eternal, if humans have free will then suffering is inevitable on an infinite timeframe”

          I don’t see why that would be the case.

          “if suffering cannot exist in heaven then free will is impossible.”

          The only reason evil/suffering is required on earth as an aspect of free will is as a test. Once you’ve passed and get into heaven there is no reason that free will, and the choices you make need to be between good and evil. We make free choices every day that don’t require that dichotomy. What to have for dinner, what to watch on tv etc. All this being said I’m simply playing devils advocate I don’t believe in free will.

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